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Spiderweb Geneforge 2 - Infestation remake from Spiderweb Software

Jack Slash

Literate
Joined
Mar 21, 2024
Messages
40
The Takers are fucking idiots, they ditch the shapers and quickly replace them with Drakons.
They used to be my least favourite faction, too, but after playing the remakes, I started sympathising with the Takers more and more.

I just find it relatable somehow that, after centuries of undisputed Shaper oppression, it was neither the Awakened compromise nor any further lateral movements in the Shaper circles that brought about the change - instead, it took the undiluted, congealed hatred to create an ultimate living weapon (Ghaldring) and disrupt the old ways. And the Takers don't just hate the Shapers - they also hate themselves and each other, and so they go on the path of continuous reshaping of themselves, discarding the outdated bodies and inefficient concepts without a moment's thought or gratitude for previous accomplishments that allowed them to get this far. And the lengths they go to achieve their goals - the game frequently mentions how the Takers get the worst lands, the worst living conditions, the least amount of food, and a lot of random NPCs you meet are on the brink of starvation. And yet, their labs are the biggest, and their war machine has the most gas in its tank - always.

It's only Jeff's canon, of course, but it's easy to feel commiserative with these mad, ruthless and unapologetic weirdos.
 

Mauman

Learned
Joined
Jun 30, 2021
Messages
961
Meh....the Takers have always been giant self-destructive fucktards. I usually take great glee in genociding them.

Now I do have sympathy for the Awakened, but at the end of the day I'm loyalist/non-aligned to the core.
 

Dayyālu

Arcane
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Messages
4,506
Location
Shaper Crypt
Now I do have sympathy for the Awakened, but at the end of the day I'm loyalist/non-aligned to the core.

The Awakened are the "sensible" option.... until they aren't. Historically they lose and lose and lose until all that's left is a "moderate" faction of Rebels that exist because the Takers with blood and insanity mauled Shaper society in open warfare, and the Shapers are weakened enough to consider other options. Of course, in their endings they manage to make everything work, but in the Vogel canon the "moderate rebel" positions aren't simply sustainable against Shaper rigidity and Rebel insanity.

In Geneforge 2 their weakness is further underlined by being dependant on Zachary for their mere existence (he gave them support, shielded them and hid them) and they're over-cultivating the valley with uncontrolled Shaping because they don't fully understand that the Shaper laws have a good reason to exist. They may be moral, but they're not practical.

I also like being nonaligned, and it's honestly good to see how weak you are in refusing everything. No canisters? Well, you're significantly weaker. All trainers bar the Shaper Camp cost a lot more and some trainers are flat-out refusing to deal with you. You get even less quests, less gold and less experience. There's no gameplay advantage whatsoever in being "pure unaligned" bar having to deal with the same shit with less power (and of course avoiding Canister Madness) but it feels good: too often in games refusing "the Evil Power" is trivially easy because the other options are equivalent, in Geneforge 2 you're going to struggle for purity and discipline.
 

Mauman

Learned
Joined
Jun 30, 2021
Messages
961
Now I do have sympathy for the Awakened, but at the end of the day I'm loyalist/non-aligned to the core.

There's no gameplay advantage whatsoever in being "pure unaligned" bar having to deal with the same shit with less power
Phariston exists :D

Also, While we note that Awakened are the "sensible" option, they are also giant hypocrites. Their whole end-game existence relies on
obedient Drakon creations
.

I don't blame them, but it does make the whole "creation rights" thing fall flat on it's face. Especially when you're being tasked to kill "rogues" they created :P
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,212
Location
Bulgaria
Meh....the Takers have always been giant self-destructive fucktards. I usually take great glee in genociding them.

Now I do have sympathy for the Awakened, but at the end of the day I'm loyalist/non-aligned to the core.
I intent on killing them all and fucking off. :smug:
 

Saduj

Arcane
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
2,552
Does anyone know what benefit Tuldaric's alteration is supposed to give the player? I stepped onto the platform, read the text that came up onscreen, healed up and greedily opened the character screen only to see that nothing had changed. Is this a joke hammering home the point that the Awakened are delusional with little to offer or am I missing something?
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
729
Wasteland 2
In the original after alteration you gain access to learning highest level spells earlier than with other factions, it's also possible there are some exclusive spells in the remake. I didn't even remember, just spent a minute in google you lazy fuck.
 

Saduj

Arcane
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
2,552
In the original after alteration you gain access to learning highest level spells earlier than with other factions, it's also possible there are some exclusive spells in the remake. I didn't even remember, just spent a minute in google you lazy fuck.
I did Google it. Nothing helpful came up. Just searched through a walkthrough and apparently it just opens up more powerful spells available in training. So more or less what you said.
 

Tao

Savant
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
Messages
348
Anyone know where is dayna's book in the magus complex? I can't find it anywhere and i can't find nothing googling it either.
 

Mauman

Learned
Joined
Jun 30, 2021
Messages
961
Anyone know where is dayna's book in the magus complex? I can't find it anywhere and i can't find nothing googling it either.
I'm doing this from memory, so forgive me if I'm off a bit.

It's slightly south and west of the big room with the microscopes (the ones that let you see "genes") in a locked room. The same room that will be unlocked if you do a favor for the schizo agent (the one who sees ghosts).

Again, doing this from memory, so if I'm off I apologize.
 

Nim

Augur
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
455
Anyone know where is dayna's book in the magus complex? I can't find it anywhere and i can't find nothing googling it either.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/community/MattP/contributions/faqs
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/918441-geneforge-2/faqs/26410
Dayna is a servile who was once an obeyer. She is ill, but asks you to find her the book "Paths of Fire.
Swofford is a librarian who will speak with you about some books she's looking for, and you'll also find the book "Paths of Fire" to the NW.
Shouldn't be any different in the remake.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,568
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://bottomfeeder.substack.com/p/indie-postmortem-1-geneforge-2-infestation

Indie Postmortem 1: Geneforge 2 - Infestation. Funding and Building.​

A weird development process that actually sort of works.​


https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F63121703-d297-4552-83a4-949ad1381415_1024x576.jpeg


About a month ago, we released our newest indie RPG, Geneforge 2 - Infestation. Fan reaction has been really positive. Reviews are great. It's making decent money. We get to stay in business.

That's the quick summary.

The video game business is in a weird, scary, contracting, almost recessionary place right now. Nobody is sure what is going on. So this is a quick game release post-mortem. How did we fund, develop, and market this game? What were the results?

I started writing all this because I wanted to give some numbers and other results of our PR strategy. Then it bloated. I ended up writing a huge description of our entire creative process.

I'm posting it this way for two reasons. One, we do often get asked about our games-writing process, as it's solid enough to keep us going for 30 years. Second, we do a lot of things in weird ways, and I want to inspire creators to not back down from doing things in their own weird ways. Do what it takes to get the game out, dude!

I hope all this TL;DR is a little helpful for people who want to create stuff online. Or people who are foolhardy enough to want to make money writing games.


The original Geneforge 2, from 2003, in luxurious 800x600 pixel glory.
The Game In Question

We're Spiderweb Software. We started making indie RPGs in 1994, which was a long time ago. Over the years, we've built up a very kind and patient following of fans. Some people played our games as kids, grew up, had kids of their own, and now play our games with them.

Our new game is called Geneforge 2 - Infestation. It's a story-heavy, turn-based RPG, which is a very popular genre that doesn't get that many quality games. This game is a remaster of our popular cult-classic RPG called Geneforge 2 which came out in 2003. It's an unusual, unique, innovative game made with a budget of basically zero.

So we have a lot going for and against us. On the down side, we're a tiny company with no budget. On the up side, we have a fan base and decent name recognition. Bear these factors in mind when you try to learn from our experiences.

To fully understand the context of the information I give below, you should immediately buy 3 copies of Geneforge 2. One to play. One to have around in case the first copy loses its freshness. And one for your mom.


Your mom’s reaction when you buy her an indie game for Christmas.
Our Previous Games

We've released a lot of titles in the 30 years we've been doing this nonsense.

Three years ago, we released Geneforge 1 - Mutagen, the remaster of Geneforge, which came out in 2001. It was a huge success for us, partly because of fan love for the series and partly because we've gotten really good at doing satisfying remasters.

Eighteen months ago, we released Queen's Wish 2: The Tormentor. This was an all-new title, the second game in what I had planned as the Queen's Wish trilogy. This game sold very poorly.

This was a shame. I'm really proud of the game. It's the sort of game I want to play, and I really liked playing it. However, in my advanced age, I may have fallen out of touch with what people want.

When I was younger, I always said, "I write the sort of games I want to play. If people don't want what I like to play, I'll quit this business and sell shoes." Luckily, since this didn't happen until I'm old, I'll do remasters instead.

(I WILL finish the Queen's Wish story somehow. I'm still figuring out a way to make it viable.)

So we went into Geneforge 2 with one hit and one miss behind us. We needed to make some money.


Map of the world of Geneforge 2 - Infestation. I still do 95% of my notes with pencil and paper, in nice 3-ring binders. I should put them all up for auction someday.
Months 1-2: Planning and Recovery

The two months after releasing a game are a time of refreshing. I forget everything about the previous game, and I load all of the facts about the new game into mental RAM. I do planning, which means covering piles of sheets of papers with notes. I play all the good games that came out over the previous year, looking for ideas to steal.

I also read a lot. I keep reading throughout the entire development of the game and will continue this for my entire life. It's a great source of ideas, inspiration, and pleasure.

Months 3-6 - Plan and Run Kickstarter

We funded Geneforge 2 - Infestation in part by doing a Kickstarter.

(The rest of our funding always comes from sales of the previous game. That is why we put out so many titles. When we put out a game, it starts a Death Clock, and we only have so much time to release the next game.)

If you have an established fan base, Kickstarter is an undervalued way to fund projects. Your Kickstarter serves as a fancy sort of presale, with extra money earned by selling to high level backers.

For our Kickstarter, we let backers get pins and stickers. At higher levels of support, they could also contribute names, magic items, and even quests to the game. We've been letting backers give ideas for 4 games now, and it's been a huge success. Our fans have great ideas, and I have a lot of fun turning them into playable game content.

The Kickstarter went live in February, 2023, did very well and made a nice chunk of cash. Kickstarter has been very important for keeping our business going, and we wish them a long life.

Our fans were happy with the physical merch, but it only made us a few thousand extra dollars. It was a fun experiment and we'll keep doing it sometimes, but it won't be a big part of our business.

We also paid a PR firm to do PR for our Kickstarter. We've done this in the past, and it worked then. It doesn't work anymore. Unless it is VERY exceptional, no reporter wants to write about a Kickstarter. Too many of them have come to nothing, and there are too many games to write about that actually exist. In the future, we will rely on our existing fans and PR outlets to push our Kickstarters.


POV: You are writing down the details of the new storyline in your remaster. The mercilessness of the blank page, temporarily defeated.
Months 7-15 - Write a Game

Once we had some money in hand and proof that people cared, our next job was to write the bulk of the game.

This is the good time. We just go silent and make the game for a while.

We do some PR. I write blog posts and tweets. We have a few sales and send a few updates to our mailing list. However, PR is draining. It takes time and energy. At some point, I do need to vanish and fully concentrate on making a product. It's so peaceful. Ahhhh.

There is one hugely important PR job in this period, though. I have to get enough art together to make a decent trailer. Then we get our Steam page up and running. Making this eats about a week.

We announced our Steam page about 6 months before release: Trailer. Description. Screenshots. No firm release date yet. When that went live, we only announced it on our own pages and to our own socials and PR outlets. Hiring a PR person is expensive, so we saved that energy until we were close to release.

The job now was to start getting attention. And the tangible expression of attention: wishlists on Steam. They started trickling in. We contacted our PR people. We wanted to announce our release date in January, 2024 and release the game in March.

This carries us through the design, funding, and development process. Next time, we will look at the actual announcement, PR work, and shipping. There will be more firm numbers there. See you soon!

Confirmed - Queen's Wish 2 bombed:

Eighteen months ago, we released Queen's Wish 2: The Tormentor. This was an all-new title, the second game in what I had planned as the Queen's Wish trilogy. This game sold very poorly.

This was a shame. I'm really proud of the game. It's the sort of game I want to play, and I really liked playing it. However, in my advanced age, I may have fallen out of touch with what people want.

When I was younger, I always said, "I write the sort of games I want to play. If people don't want what I like to play, I'll quit this business and sell shoes." Luckily, since this didn't happen until I'm old, I'll do remasters instead.

(I WILL finish the Queen's Wish story somehow. I'm still figuring out a way to make it viable.)
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,568
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Vault Dweller Sales stats relevant to your interests:

In the first 2 weeks, we sold about 3000 copies (and sent a lot to Kickstarter backers). This is about 2.5 times what Queen's Wish 2 did, but about 40% of what Geneforge 1 - Mutagen did. These multipliers held when the game was out a month.

So the increased competition over the last 3 years did hurt our sales. However, this is enough that we should be able to stay in business. So that's nice. Also, the release boosted sales of Geneforge 1 - Mutagen, which is very nice.

On the Wednesday we shipped, 81 new games came out on Steam. This was more than we expected. While we were happy with our sales, they were not enough to push us onto the Popular New Releases Steam list, where the real money gets made.

https://bottomfeeder.substack.com/p/indie-postmortem-2-geneforge-2-infestation

Indie Postmortem 2: Geneforge 2 - Infestation. Avoiding Utter Disaster.​

Yeah. I grovel. I got product to move. I'm not proud.​


https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F54c4c3ca-8fdd-4cb1-b0f7-b501834dbeb4_1920x1080.jpeg


I really hate making screenshots, but sometimes I capture something that looks pretty cool.
This is the second part of the design/marketing/release process for our newest indie RPG, Geneforge 2 - Infestation. The first part is here. TL;DR: We’ve been making indie games for a living for 30 years. Here’s how we manage it.

Phase 16-18 - Actually Doing PR For Real. Also, Shipping a Game.

In January, the game was basically done. The next few months were for setting up stores, fixing the final bugs, and resting up in preparation for the big final push.

After all, while indie developers like to pretend we're a family, it's still a business. We are all fighting each other for a tiny and shrinking amount of potential exposure. Every weekday, 80 games come out on Steam. You are fighting them for press coverage. Ask yourself, "What makes me more worthy of news coverage than them?" You need to be able to answer that question.

We are lucky enough to be able to hire a PR firm. We paid about $4K for a small but decent firm to do waves of coverage. One for announcing the release date, and one for the actual release. What this pays for is this: Your press releases are being sent by someone the editors know. The From field on the emails isn't some anonymous loser, but an established business contact. It's expensive, but, if you hire the right people, it can really be worth it.

When we announced the release date, our PR people sent out a wave of press releases. Several sites gave coverage. We were selling an established game series from an old favorite, and our entering our 30th year in the business gave an interesting PR angle.

Before this PR, we had about 2000 Steam wishlists, mainly from our established fan base. They came in much faster after the coverage. Then, in February, we took part in Steam Next Fest. This gave us a big wishlist boost, and we recommend it. (Though, like everything else in this business, it's getting more crowded and less useful every year.) By the time we reached the middle of March (2 weeks before release), we had about 5000 wishlists.


Now that the game has been out for a month, I’ve forgotten almost everything about it. I’m not 100% sure where this is.
The Magic of Wishlists, and the Limits

Indie developers tend to fetishize Steam wishlists. It's understandable. Before you actually ship the game, its just about the only tangible evidence that people care about what you are doing.

A wishlist is also a fraction of a sale. When you ship your game or put it on sale, wishlisters get spammed with the news. Some of them buy.

Finally, a few days before your release date, wishlists give your game a chance of appearing on the Popular Upcoming section of the Steam homepage. This is actually a great way to get a ton of exposure to people who have never heard of you.

In our case, our 5000 wishlists got us onto that list about 48 hours before release. In those 48 hours, we got over 3000 more wishlists. That's enough to make real money.

This is, as far as I know, all of the advantages of getting wishlists. They are a good thing.

However, it is possible to get too obsessed with those few days around the Steam release. If you have a really blessed release and show up on the Steam Hot lists, it DOES make more money. But it's a percentage. A really good launch might, I suspect, increase your total earnings by 10%. That's great! That's a lot!

Still, it is just a percentage. A really good release will not make people care about a mediocre game. It won't turn not-fun into fun, and it won't make people who are uninterested into passionate fans. It will not turn a failure into a success.


How I feel immediately before pressing the Release button. And immediately after.
Release Day

On release day, we shipped the game. It was a very clean release. No technical problems or nasty bugs.

People really liked it. As I write this, we are at Very Positive on Steam. Reviews are extremely kind. It took a long time, but we got very good at doing remasters.

Our PR people bugged everyone who showed interest in us. We got a handful of very nice articles.

In the first 2 weeks, we sold about 3000 copies (and sent a lot to Kickstarter backers). This is about 2.5 times what Queen's Wish 2 did, but about 40% of what Geneforge 1 - Mutagen did. These multipliers held when the game was out a month.

So the increased competition over the last 3 years did hurt our sales. However, this is enough that we should be able to stay in business. So that's nice. Also, the release boosted sales of Geneforge 1 - Mutagen, which is very nice.

On the Wednesday we shipped, 81 new games came out on Steam. This was more than we expected. While we were happy with our sales, they were not enough to push us onto the Popular New Releases Steam list, where the real money gets made.

I counted 5 games that came out that day who got onto the Steam Hot Game list. Which means, out of 81 games that came out that day, at least 5 of them were serious products with real numbers of followers. If you are comforting yourself by thinking, "All of the hordes of games coming out are bad," I assure you that you will be competing with a lot of quality product.

By the way, since we get asked ... Steam is, of course, the vast majority of our sales. Unless you are a huge company or get a big buyout, I can't imagine making a living in PC games without Steam. We also get good sales from our own site (using the Humble Widget) and GOG.com. Our iPad versions make about $1500/month these days, which is a pleasant bonus. Nothing else is significant.


How I am rewarding myself for shipping successfully.
What Happens Next

Cleaning up, really. Releasing patches until we're happy with the stability of the game. Making an iPad port.

Then I empty my brain of all things Geneforge 2. Which is a huge relief. I find holding an entire game in my head to be quite exhausting. The forgetting is like setting down a massive weight.

I take a day off or two. Then I start a new game.

And that is it. If this provides a few useful thoughts about what the online content-creation industry is like, I'm glad I helped. Everything is tighter now, and competition is huge in every space where it's possible to make a dollar. But then again, nobody ever promised that making a living in art is easy.

Good luck to you, and I'm going back to creating. I'm a very lucky person to be able to support my family doing this. If this is your goal too, I wish you great fortune. As long as you don't release a game the same day I do. In that case, well ... I'd better not say what I think.
 

Gandalf

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
404

How I feel immediately before pressing the Release button. And immediately after.
What the heck does he mean by that?!
 

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