Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Fallout Fallout 4 Thread

Stella Brando

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
9,061


Fallout 4's main drawback is that Boston just isn't that interesting. I mean, how many people around the world dream of visiting Boston? New Vegas was a much better idea for a location.

Assassin's Creed had Jerusalem, Florence, the Caribbean, Paris, London, Alexandria, Athens etc. They also did Boston, but it was in a American Independence game I hardly played. Americans always like to have a Revolution episode, even if doing so is totally predictable.
 
Last edited:

markec

Twitterbot
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
46,670
Location
Croatia
Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Dead State Project: Eternity Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath


Fallout 4's main drawback is that Boston just isn't that interesting. I mean, how many people around the world dream of visiting Boston? New Vegas was a much better idea for a location.

Assassin's Creed had Jerusalem, Florence, the Caribbean, Paris, London, Alexandria, Athens etc. They also did Boston, but it was in a American Independence game I hardly played. Americans always like to have a Revolution episode, even if doing so is totally predictable.

Nothing wrong with Boston, problem is with Bethesda and their design choices. If you place story of Fallout 4 in any other city it would still be a equally bad game only with maybe few more interesting vistas.

Biggest problem is that Bethesda just cant comprehend a post apocalyptic society that flourishes and rebuilds.

Boston is just another place that after hundreds of years is still just a ruin overrun with mutants and bandits. Only civilization being a struggling small part of it on a baseball field which entire identity is about baseball themed weapons and armor. Its stupid and not interesting.

How about making Boston a capitol of a new strong faction that chooses the city for its symbolism as they try to usurp the old powerful staple factions of Fallout universe.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
9,587
Location
Grand Chien


Fallout 4's main drawback is that Boston just isn't that interesting. I mean, how many people around the world dream of visiting Boston? New Vegas was a much better idea for a location.

Assassin's Creed had Jerusalem, Florence, the Caribbean, Paris, London, Alexandria, Athens etc. They also did Boston, but it was in a American Independence game I hardly played. Americans always like to have a Revolution episode, even if doing so is totally predictable.

Nothing wrong with Boston, problem is with Bethesda and their design choices. If you place story of Fallout 4 in any other city it would still be a equally bad game only with maybe few more interesting vistas.

Biggest problem is that Bethesda just cant comprehend a post apocalyptic society that flourishes and rebuilds.

Boston is just another place that after hundreds of years is still just a ruin overrun with mutants and bandits. Only civilization being a struggling small part of it on a baseball field which entire identity is about baseball themed weapons and armor. Its stupid and not interesting.

How about making Boston a capitol of a new strong faction that chooses the city for its symbolism as they try to usurp the old powerful staple factions of Fallout universe.

Hmm I'm gonna go against the grain here, I honestly think FO4's setting both conceptually and in execution...is pretty good. I find it quite fun to explore Boston. There's tons to see and do.

The issue is that there are core problems with gameplay, that mods can fix or improve to some extent, and then there's things that can't be fixed like shitty quest design and boring NPCs.

I tend to find FO4 pretty fun, at least with a certain amount of mods to make the gameplay better, up until the moment the Prydwen arrives. And then I gradually start to lose interest. The story and quest design and writing are just terrible.

In my last playthrough (heavily modded is an understatement) I managed just about to keep interested until the end of Far Harbour (barely) and then when it came home to go back to the mainland and continue the main quest...hell no, I'm done here.

Creating fun locations to visit was never really Bethesda's problem IMO, rather its their inability to create competent stories, plots, quests, characters, etc.

Look at somewhere like Nuka World, even, which is one of Beth's worst DLCs, the issue isn't at all with the design of the place, it's fine. It's the stories and quests and characters that are boring as fuck.

To address your example, it's not that people are armed with baseball bats and protective gear that reeks of incompetence, it's the storytelling approach and character designs that are the issue.

This also explains why FO4 is so popular with normies, because they don't analyse stories in any kind of detail, it's just 'oh a baseball community, neat' then they carry on killing stuff mindlessly and enjoying every second of it. The design of the actual setting aside from the stories and the characters and so on, the actual landscape itself and even to a certain extent the enemy design, which isn't that bad, if a little lacking in variety sometimes (endless gunner enemies does get a little repetitive), does a lot of the heavy lifting in this game.
 

Gargaune

Magister
Joined
Mar 12, 2020
Messages
3,246
Hmm I'm gonna go against the grain here, I honestly think FO4's setting both conceptually and in execution...is pretty good. I find it quite fun to explore Boston. There's tons to see and do.

The issue is that there are core problems with gameplay, that mods can fix or improve to some extent, and then there's things that can't be fixed like shitty quest design and boring NPCs.

[...]

I agree almost entirely, with the caveat that the writing of the setting itself has some major issues too, not just the individual stories told in it. It's quite obvious Bethesda had little interest in the "scientific" side of its presumably post-apocalyptic science fiction, how and why its societies and technologies developed at any given point in time, and just built it around visual tropes and quick gags.
 

Stella Brando

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
9,061
You're right actually, it's fun to give up on any kind of story progression and just explore the map. In FO4 especially, I just pretend that the opening act never happened, that I'm just a random survivor in the wasteland.
 
Last edited:

markec

Twitterbot
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
46,670
Location
Croatia
Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Dead State Project: Eternity Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath


Fallout 4's main drawback is that Boston just isn't that interesting. I mean, how many people around the world dream of visiting Boston? New Vegas was a much better idea for a location.

Assassin's Creed had Jerusalem, Florence, the Caribbean, Paris, London, Alexandria, Athens etc. They also did Boston, but it was in a American Independence game I hardly played. Americans always like to have a Revolution episode, even if doing so is totally predictable.

Nothing wrong with Boston, problem is with Bethesda and their design choices. If you place story of Fallout 4 in any other city it would still be a equally bad game only with maybe few more interesting vistas.

Biggest problem is that Bethesda just cant comprehend a post apocalyptic society that flourishes and rebuilds.

Boston is just another place that after hundreds of years is still just a ruin overrun with mutants and bandits. Only civilization being a struggling small part of it on a baseball field which entire identity is about baseball themed weapons and armor. Its stupid and not interesting.

How about making Boston a capitol of a new strong faction that chooses the city for its symbolism as they try to usurp the old powerful staple factions of Fallout universe.

Hmm I'm gonna go against the grain here, I honestly think FO4's setting both conceptually and in execution...is pretty good. I find it quite fun to explore Boston. There's tons to see and do.


I disagree, the city looks great and it does have some interesting locations but thats pretty much it. Its a huge combat area where you cant go few steps without a fight and that gets old really fast. Diamond City is stupid even if conceptually makes sense.
The issue is that there are core problems with gameplay, that mods can fix or improve to some extent, and then there's things that can't be fixed like shitty quest design and boring NPCs.

I tend to find FO4 pretty fun, at least with a certain amount of mods to make the gameplay better, up until the moment the Prydwen arrives. And then I gradually start to lose interest. The story and quest design and writing are just terrible.

In my last playthrough (heavily modded is an understatement) I managed just about to keep interested until the end of Far Harbour (barely) and then when it came home to go back to the mainland and continue the main quest...hell no, I'm done here.
Constantly fighting same few types of enemies without letting the player breathe gets boring really fast, especially since questing/story/dialogs are horrible.

Creating fun locations to visit was never really Bethesda's problem IMO, rather its their inability to create competent stories, plots, quests, characters, etc.

Look at somewhere like Nuka World, even, which is one of Beth's worst DLCs, the issue isn't at all with the design of the place, it's fine. It's the stories and quests and characters that are boring as fuck.
They make interesting set pieces in a vacuum, problem (beside writing) is that Bethesda cant make a cohesive world and the game ends up feeling like a theme park.

To address your example, it's not that people are armed with baseball bats and protective gear that reeks of incompetence, it's the storytelling approach and character designs that are the issue.
Sure a good writer can make a bad design decision seem interesting, but just because someone make it interesting does not mean it was good from get go. Having a city set in the stadium where guards use the baseball gear or Minutemen having their uniforms being inspired by revolutionary era and armed with laser muskets is silly. Again a competent writers could make this work, but in the hands of Bethesda its just stupid. But this is not what I would call major flaw with the game, just an example how Bethesda theme park design philosophy.

This also explains why FO4 is so popular with normies, because they don't analyse stories in any kind of detail, it's just 'oh a baseball community, neat' then they carry on killing stuff mindlessly and enjoying every second of it. The design of the actual setting aside from the stories and the characters and so on, the actual landscape itself and even to a certain extent the enemy design, which isn't that bad, if a little lacking in variety sometimes (endless gunner enemies does get a little repetitive), does a lot of the heavy lifting in this game.

Beside writing my biggest issues with Fallout 4, is lack of empty space. I wish they left the same amount of content but made the map twice as big, to give the player some break between fights to enjoy the scenery and do some exploration in peace. The biggest issue of all is the theme park design which destroys my immersion. Here is a diner/quarry/hut in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by enemies for all sides, with a few npcs and a quest just waiting for you to arrive. It all just feels lazy without any care given just like pretty much every design choice of this game.
 

tritosine2k

Erudite
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
1,519
FO Boston is not nice, id even prefer a subway system and ruins.
These modular buildings hardly if ever act as semi interior/exterior because it's put there to block view practically.

The police station with super mutants is better done than anything in Boston. That's good semi interior.
 

ind33d

Learned
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
1,012
why doesn't bethesda only create creation kits and then license them to a developer who actually knows how to make a video game?
 

Tommy Gun

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
1,294
You're right actually, it's fun to give up on any kind of story progression and just explore the map. In FO4 I especially just pretend that the opening act never happened, that I'm just a random survivor in the wasteland.

Yep, this is how I played it, I've done it in Fallout 3 and Skyrim too, just use the world Bethesda makes as a playground for your own stories and adventures. You know, like role-play.
 

tritosine2k

Erudite
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
1,519
why doesn't bethesda only create creation kits and then license them to a developer who actually knows how to make a video game?
Maybe cuz outside AAA theres AA gamedev and they want quick buck from streamlined cinematic action games that supposed to handle and feel better than this jank. & that's just what Bethesda used idtech5 for and drove id into ground lmao.
 

Zewp

Arcane
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
3,582
Codex 2013
Hmm I'm gonna go against the grain here, I honestly think FO4's setting both conceptually and in execution...is pretty good. I find it quite fun to explore Boston. There's tons to see and do.

I usually enjoy exploring Bethesda's open worlds (not Starfield), even if there is room for improvement. The problem is with everything else surrounding. I usually drop off their games because of other stuff.

New Vegas is undoubtedly the best of the 3D Fallouts, but I can't say that exploring the world was one of the highlights for me.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
9,587
Location
Grand Chien
Hmm I'm gonna go against the grain here, I honestly think FO4's setting both conceptually and in execution...is pretty good. I find it quite fun to explore Boston. There's tons to see and do.

I usually enjoy exploring Bethesda's open worlds (not Starfield), even if there is room for improvement. The problem is with everything else surrounding. I usually drop off their games because of other stuff.

New Vegas is undoubtedly the best of the 3D Fallouts, but I can't say that exploring the world was one of the highlights for me.
With FNV I like the game's world but I get a lot more enjoyment out of the quests, there's something about them that makes it always interesting even on the 10th playthrough.
 

tritosine2k

Erudite
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
1,519


If modders were normal persons you'd get mods like this with nifty faction interaction. But probably not worth it anyway as you can't even get PvE out of it: even though the player can consider landscape the enemy agency doesn't extend anywhere near that. Same with Cyberjank. Taunting the player is all that ever happens and even that's unsubstantiated.

RAGE did this million times better already.
 
Last edited:

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,679
I thought FO4's opening hours, even if I ignore the main quest, are pretty boring. You go from location A to location B, kill everything and loot, move onto the next location. Rinse and repeat.
The storytelling in these locations are almost entirely reserved to terminals and notes. Without them, you would struggle to point out a difference between the last three locations you cleared out.

You are also not given a space to breath, and because of the ever increasing graphical fidelity it also becomes harder to spot the useful items among the equallly detailed trash and rubble. Going into a dungeon for 10 minutes is an exhausting task. Especially because in Survival combat is over in a second. So you kill three enemies in less than twenty seconds, and now spent the next 10 minutes looting the place for the same generic trash you saw in the last dungeon.

For this reason I'm a strong advocate of games that don't allow you to loot everything not nailed to the ground.
 

tritosine2k

Erudite
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
1,519
Only thing worth pursuing in this game is assaultron legs for Ada
but you're better off with mod so you can get it in goodneighbour early..
Oh and bypass lvl restriction by starting at 50...
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
4,156


Fallout 4's main drawback is that Boston just isn't that interesting. I mean, how many people around the world dream of visiting Boston? New Vegas was a much better idea for a location.

Assassin's Creed had Jerusalem, Florence, the Caribbean, Paris, London, Alexandria, Athens etc. They also did Boston, but it was in a American Independence game I hardly played. Americans always like to have a Revolution episode, even if doing so is totally predictable.


The level of actual real-world interest of any location shouldn’t really matter to how interesting that location is in a Fallout game. It’s a post apocalyptic game, in a series where the pre-war locations shouldn’t really look much of anything like our own real-world versions of them.

Take the Necropolis for example. Necropolis is Bakersfield. Here’s Bakersfield:

blog_full_bakersfield-ca-LSAT-tutors.jpeg

shutterstock-1543144589.jpg


Here’s the tallest building in Bakersfield...12 floors:

57da1fd5d8fd1.image.jpg


Here’s some ruins of Bakersfield they show you in Fallout:

08f8691c1f91037d4e63ed015be117c5.png
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom